Dell UltraSharp 24″ 4K UP2414Q on Mac
Just a quick note: The affordable, and color accurate 24″ 4K display from Dell (UP2414Q) does work on recent Macs. Even my not so recent mid-2012 Retina MacBook Pro. However, on these, and even the later Retina MacBook Pro it only runs the full 4k resolution at 30 Hz. On the newer it should work with 60Hz, but this currently looks to be a Mac driver limitation.
Switching to HiDPI mode requires some hackery, as Mac does neither do this automatically according to the DPI that could be derived from the DDC EDID data, nor does it offer a UI option to do so, … :-/
As I never in life run a display at 30Hz the first thing to notice is mouse lag. One would think it would be snappy, given that regular cinema runs at 24Hz. But at 30Hz mouse input just feels laggy and decreases the feel of using the UI with the mouse quite a bit.
Of course working with graphic, text, most notably source code at HiDPI is just amazing. What Apple should fix:
- default to HiDPI with a scaling option for external display, just like for internal
- fix the driver of latest Macs to support high-bandwidth, Multi-Stream Tiled displays
PS: 16:9 really is annoying for work, 16:10 should be the standard for Pro work, and cinema is more like 21:9 anyway, …
January 29th, 2014 at 15:08
Hi René!
I got mine yesterday and cannot quite get it to work at an acceptable resolution. Working on a late-2013 rMBP 13″ here.
Can you elaborate on what you did exactly so I might have a chance to get the same results?! :-)
TIA,
Oliver
January 29th, 2014 at 15:41
Well, I have a 15″ with NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M, the 13″ only has Intel “Iris” graphics, … Though I think at least via the HDMI port 30Hz at 3840-by-2160 should be possible on your machine, too …
The NVidia and Intel driver may behave different though, …
For HiDPI I used the demo version of SwitchResX to trick OS X into the 2x scaling HiDPI more.
PS: you could try not enabling DisayPort 1.2 in the display menu, or vice versa, …
Needless to say that the lack of proper 4K support on latest Macs and HiDPI without tricks is really a bit disappointing.
January 29th, 2014 at 18:27
Hmm… I have access to a mid-2012 rMBP 15″, too. No success with that. I tried SwitchResx but I cannot get it into HiDPI mode with 3840×2160. It only comes up with “Not activated - invalid?” Will have another look then.
Let’s hope Apple will support the Dell LCDs soon without any hackery. Thanks.
January 29th, 2014 at 18:42
But you are at 3840×2160, just not HiDPI?
I just remember there where two 3840×2160 entires which are named: 1080p (NTSC) (HiDPI). The 300Mhz mode of the two does not work here, only the 267.75 MHz one (click on the eye icon for detailed timing info).
That reminds me also: My plan was also to play with this timing to see if I could get at least some 35MHz refresh for now by adjusting the timing closer to 300 MHz, but as this required a reboot, doesn’t work cycle I gave up on that for now, …
Please let me know of your setup goes, and in case of I can post screenshots, too.
January 29th, 2014 at 22:29
Looks like 4th gen Intel graphic should be capable on the hardware level to support 4k @ 60Hz:
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-034596.htm
January 31st, 2014 at 20:46
The hidpi resolution is only 1920 x 1080, correct? Is the native resolution too small to read text or adequately see the UI elements? Would editing code at that res be blinding?
January 31st, 2014 at 22:55
Yes, the display has exactly two times the regular pixels of a 24″ display. At 1:1 of the native resolution everything is forbidably small. The logical choice is exactly as retina iPhone, iPad or Mac to draw all UI elements twice as large. For super sharp, no-pixel-visible text. A pleasure to work with. And the future. At 60Hz - 30Hz everything is a bit laggy, the opposite of “snappy” … :-/
February 1st, 2014 at 19:36
I checked in the Berlin Apple Store, and it looks like the Mac Pro is driving the Sharp PN-K321 using said MultiStream. Mac OS X does not show that clearly, but the Sharp OSD showed DisplayPort: MST.
Btw. the Sharp build quality is disgusting, for example the OSD is painful to navigate using the loose side buttons, and easily turned off with the top side button. The Dell UP2414Q touch buttons are a magnitude more comfortable, kinda feel like the former Apple Cinema Display, …
So far it looks like MST on the Mac currently only works with the Mac Pro ATi/AMD driver, … And if Apple is not willing to update the NVidia/Intel driver (where the hardware is capable of supporting that) we are out of luck, and could only binary patch those driver, …
February 4th, 2014 at 19:36
Sorry for being late :-)
I finally managed to get into 2048×1080 on HiDPI with SwitchResX. The 2012 rMBP 15″ is connected via HDMI. I’m not even sure if that’s supposed to work, but it does ;-)
February 4th, 2014 at 19:58
@30 Hz I guess? I assume that means a bit laggy mouse cursor for you, too?
Yes, that is supposed to work, even officially by Apple, 4K @ 24/30 Hz over HDMI they write on the product pages, …
HDMI 1.x is bandwidth limited so that 4K only works at maximal 30Hz. For me the DisplayPort / Thunderbold ports on the 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro also work with 4K@30Hz. Maybe Apple’s Intel driver get’s confused on the DisplayPort, …
Given the laggy mouse cursor in the long long I need more than 30Hz which unfortunately probably needs a new Mac for me. Let’s hope Apple is so nice to update the driver for the newer, latest Intel and NVidia, … (unfortunately I got the NVidia GeForce GT650M in this Mid-2012 Retina MacBook Pro).
February 5th, 2014 at 16:03
Yes, 30 Hz, unfortunately. 60 Hz is a must (in the long run). Let’s hope Apple will be nice to us.
March 7th, 2014 at 19:13
Mac OS X 10.9.3 may bring MST and thus 60Hz for mid-2013 Retina MacBook Pro’s:
March 22nd, 2014 at 19:41
Just a note: I can confirm on a Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013 with NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M and OS X 10.9.3 (13D21) 60Hz works with the Dell UltraSharp 4K UP2414Q, … 60 Hz really make such a snappy difference, …. ;-)
April 1st, 2014 at 21:22
Firstly, I enabled the Display Port 1.2 mode on the monitor via the OST.
Latest 10.9.3
Macbook Pro 15″ Late 2013
–works on mavericks @ 60hz
Macbook Pro 15″ Early 2013
Maverics –does not show hidpi modes
Macbook Pro (haswell) Late 2013
Maverics - does not show hidpi modes
April 1st, 2014 at 22:06
Hi Tommy,
you mean 15″ Pro without Retina? My understanding is that 4k 60Hz currently only work on Mac with NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M or the ATi in the new MacPro.
Technically the latest Intel Haswell / Iris Pro should be 4k @ 60 Hz capable (e.g. works at my Surface Pro 2 with Windows 8) but if Apple will support this in the Mac OS X drivers remains to be seen (e.g. they could keep that as a feature for the high end devices to promote purchase for these configurations), …
April 2nd, 2014 at 4:18
Hi. Here is a more thorough description of each machine and some more diagnostics.
Macbook Pro Retina 15″ Late 2013 (nVidia 750m)
–works on mavericks @ 60hz w/10.9.3 beta
-works on bootcamp @ 60hz
Macbook Pro Retina 15″ Early 2013 (nVidia 650m)
Maverics –does not show hidpi modes w/10.3
Use ResolutionTab to enable hidpi — shows hidpi but @ 30hz
Bootcamp - does NOT work with displayport 1.2. when i reverted to displayport 1.1 on the monitor, it works with hidpi but @ 30hz
Macbook Pro Retina 13″ Late 2013 (Intel Iris)
Maverics - does not show hidpi modes (note: need to try ResolutionTab)
Bootcamp - shows the monitor as 2 monitors running in portrait. Other than this, it works @ 60hz.
April 7th, 2014 at 1:57
Rene:
I understand Surface Pro 2 has an inferiour gpu (HD 4400) compared to HD 5100 (Iris) and HD 5200 (Iris Pro), but you can nonetheless get 4K @ 60Hz. Please kindly confirm and comment on the performance as 4k 60Hz might put to much stress on that tablet PC. How is, say, scrolling and browsing as well as 4k video watching experience (please state the refresh rate of such video)? Any lags or whatsover?
Tommy fannon:
1) Are you considering trying the ResolutionTab on rMBP 13′’ late 2013 (Intel Iris)?
2) What exactly is the difference between the bootcamp of 15′’ late 2013 (nvidia 750m) and rMBP 13′’ late 2013 (Intel Iris)? It seems the former works flawlessly, but that seems not the case for the latter. Would you mind elaborating on what you mean with “shows the monitor as 2 monitors running in portrait”? Is the screen split into two or something?
3) Could you please comment on the performance of 4k 60Hz on both configurations? How is, say, scrolling and browsing as well as 4k video watching experience (please state the refresh rate of such video)? Any lags or whatsover?
April 9th, 2014 at 17:03
Yes, the Surface 2 Pro can output 4K at @60Hz under Windows 8. I have the impression all Intel Haswell “seventh generation” silicon can output 4K @60Hz.
Scrolling my Visual Studio files and browser are smooth on the Surface 2 Pro with 4K. As I don’t have any 4k video nor do I in general watch movies on the Surface - I can only assume hardware accelerated video should run smoothly nowadays.
1) I do not have a 13″ rMBP. But AFAICS the Apple’s Intel video drivers currently do not allow for 4K MST @60Hz on Mac OS X.
2) I think the difference is NVIDIA GeForce GT 650 vs. GT 750M. Maybe only the later Nvidia silicon does 4K @60Hz / MST. Or at least Nvidia would not tell anyone nor add it to their driver so people buy new hardware anyways.
3) I use the Dell 4K for long software development workdays. Performance on the new 15″ rMBP is smooth. At 60Hz everything is just butter smooth as usual on Mac OS X- no lag whatsoever.
With older hardware and 30Hz, however, the mouse cursor is extremely laggy. I have the “feeling” 30Hz is a little bit better with Linux and X.org silken mouse. Maybe on Mac OS X the mouse cursor is not done with the hardware cursor overlay, but instead going thru the regular 2D/3D engine blitting, and thus part of double or tripple buffering of the composited desktop. If this is so the mouse cursor on Mac OS X could lag one or two frames (1/30 to 2/30 seconds - 33 to 66 ms) behind compared to Linux where usually the hardware overlay registers are directly, instantly programmed when the mouse coordinates arrive.
April 9th, 2014 at 19:48
Thank you, Rene.
Actually my 3 questions were directed to Tommy Fannon, because it seems he has Haswell 13′’ and 15′’ in his possession and, based on his comment, there seems to be still hope Iris may output 4k@60Hz with ResolutionTab. Plus it would be perfect if he elaborates on the 4k60Hz capability of the Iris model on bootcamp because his statement is rather unclear.
Therefore I will appreciate if you can request him to reply by reaching him– I thought that as the website host you might have his email.
April 9th, 2014 at 19:56
As far as I know the current Mac Apple Intel graphic driver does not implement MST for 4K @60 Hz, no matter what external config tweaking tools like ResolutionTab try.
At 30Hz animations are smooth - like a cinema, TV, DVD, BluRay movie running at 24 to 30 Hz - however, as I wrote, the mouse feels really laggy and after some weeks with that I rather upgraded my 15″ Retina MacBook to the latest 2013 model to finally have 60Hz with the current Mavericks Beta, … [right now on OS X 10.9.3 (13D28)].
April 9th, 2014 at 21:37
Do you have an idea about why Tommy Fannon commented more in detail on the 13-inch rMBP’s 4k 60Hz capability on bootcamp compared to that of 15-inch rMBP’s?
The reason why I ask this question is because I could not fully understand what he meant with “shows the monitor as 2 monitors running in portrait. Other than this, it works @ 60hz” when he explained the 4k 60Hz capability of the 13-inch rMBP.
Does this “showing of 2 monitors running in portrait” has any significance? I wonder whether what I would see on the Dell monitor when the Haswell 13-inch with Iris and 15-inch rMBP with Nvidia 750M are connected be any different.
April 9th, 2014 at 22:17
As I wrote, no driver currently does 4k @60Hz with the Nvidia 650 in the old rMBP. If the hardware silicon really can not do it, and if this is just a Nvidia limitation I do not know. With the 13″ rMBP the Intel driver allows for 4K @ 60Hz under Windows - but not Apple’s Mac driver.
Two monitors means that currently the Intel Windows driver exposed the raw displays, in case of the 4K MST display this means Windows shows a left and right panel and thus two screens. For most of the part that does not matter, except usability: Apps will usually maximise only to half of the display, if not manually further resized with the mouse, and the taskbar also only covers half of the screen horizontally. Maybe even the task switcher shows only on one panel.
But anyway, this two monitor thing under Windows is just a usability limitation of the current Intel driver on Windows / Linux. Intel posted on their site / blog that they are working on improving this - what they call collage mode.
April 9th, 2014 at 22:53
Thank you, Rene.
I was referring to Haswell 15-inch with Nvidia 750M. I guess due to DP 1.1 specification of earlier rMBPs, they cannot output 4k 60Hz. No question about that.
Thanks for the links (even though the second one does not work, will appreciate if you can share the correct one). I can clearly see that “2 monitors running in portrait” has an implication/glitch but I cannot visualize. Is there a video that you know of where I can see this glitch?
April 10th, 2014 at 11:15
Tommy Fannon:
Apple has just seeded Beta 10.9.3 Build 13D38. Could you please try outputting 4k @ 60Hz on your Late 2013 13′’ rMBP?
April 10th, 2014 at 17:51
I thought I described the effect on Windows Intel 4K in detail - it really is as if it where 2 separate monitors instead of one, see this example where this sidebar menu appears in the middle of the screen (1st half display panel) as well as Apps maximize to half of the screen. But manually resizing and dragging them around works just fine:
April 10th, 2014 at 21:19
Thank you. A couple of questions if you don’t mind.
1) Is your example achieved before or after enabling the so-called “collage” mode?
Some specific questions on widely used softwares/apps/websites:
2) Web browsing:
In this example, does Windows Explorer constitute an app on Windows 8? And is it possible to resize it in a way that it will fill the entire screen and/or eliminate the sidebar? (Sorry if this sounds silly but I am not familiar with Windows 8. To me Windows Explorer, Word etc are not apps, but I can imagine Facebook being as an app as available below: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/apps#Cat=t1)
3) Youtube:
If I cannot have Windows Explorer, or Mozilla, Safari, Chrome for that matter, cover the full screen and eliminate that side bar, that would mean I cannot maximize any webpage full screen, including YouTube. Watching a YouTube video only on the half screen does not sound nice.
4) Photography editing softwares:
What about photography editing softwares like Aperture and Lightroom? As far as I know 4K roughly corresponds to 8MP and therefore 4K screen must allow me to discern the details of photos up to 8MP without zooming in. This would make editing easier. But if I cannot maximize the photo to cover the entire screen (except for black bars due to aspect ratio difference) than I would not be benefiting from this feature. Even when I can maximize, if that side bar remains, that would ruin the whole experience. These would also apply for video editing suits.
4) Video watching:
Would a 16:9 4K 60Hz video fill the entire screen? Even if it can, if that side bar remains, that would ruin the whole experience. (this may depend of the program used for watcing video though)
5) Microsoft Office:
Can I resize the page to cover the entire screen, preferably without that side bar?
I know my question covers a lots of softwares/apps/websites some of which you might have not tried. But these are, as you would appreciate, the most widely used ones out there. Therefore if all of these work like in your example, then I don’t understand your statement “For most of the part that does not matter, except usability” in your previous post because isn’t “usability” (of at least most common softwares/apps/websites) eveything?
April 10th, 2014 at 21:49
Hi.
I just left my home on business
I brought my 13″ haswell but not my dell monitor ;)
Windows Bootcamp shows 3 screens in resolution settings. The dell is appearing as 2 portrait monitors so the taskbar ilooks funny and the maximize window only fills 1/2. You can manually resize the windows though so it’s workable and it’s 60hz.
I will answer your other questions as I get to a real computer not my phone
April 10th, 2014 at 22:13
1) there currently id no so called collage mode, my example id the only thing the Intel driver currently offers / allows
2) the maximise button currently fills 1/2 of the screen, because windows thinks it is one monitor, manually any window can be resized further
3) any app can be resized to cover the whole display
4) the side bar only appears when hovered over the edge, all this apps can cover the whole screen
4-2) I only made the sidebar appear to visualise the two display thing, it is normally not there you can watch full screen
5) yes, yes, yes - just that this split screen thing makes everything a little bit more cumbersome, …
If you are not a Windows users I would not suggest that you start using Windows - while I grew up with DOS, Windows 3.1 and saw Windows 95 which made me switch to Linux, and later to Mac OS X I experience working with Windows as extremely cumbersome, annoying. If you are used to a Mac I do not think it makes sense that you try Windows 8 just for the 4k @ 60 Hz for that, … And as a programmer I can tell you that after 10y+ on open source, Linux, and Mac OS X coming back to Windows - programming and their APIs are completely vintage, no joy at all. No wonder everything does not really work there and is crowded with malware and such, …
On the high end Macs 4k @ 60 Hz works now, anyways.
April 10th, 2014 at 23:25
Thanks a lot for the answers!!
So it seems it is possible to fill the entire screen not by maximazing but by resizing for all softwares/apps/web pages. However I guess there will always be 2 taskbars regardless, right?
I am accustomed to using Windows 7 but have never used 8. I am considering buying Haswell rMBP 13″ with Iris and before pulling the trigger I want to be sure it will be -relatively- futureproof. in this regard I consider 4k 60Hz capability important. In this regard, as long as this particular rMBP has this capability, despite with this minor flaw (monitor recognized as 2 monitors in portrait mode) and usable only through bootcamp (which is not preferable but better than nothing), it is fine.
In this context it is imperative that I make sure this 2 monitors thing is not a big problem and deal breaker. Thanks to you, it seems this is a very issue.
April 10th, 2014 at 23:54
I see. Two things:
1) this 4K behaviour purely depends on the graphics driver. The Nvidia and ATi drivers already hide this MST implementation detail from the OS (Windows) and simply show just one display anyway. This is just that somehow the Intel developers do not yet (capable to) deliver a driver that simply does that. I would actually assume the same hardware just works the same under Windows 7 if you prefer to use that, …
2) That this is an Apple machine does not change this behaviour (under Windows) at all. The silicon -the Intel CPU/GPU- is just the same if you get it soldered into a pretty aluminium case from Appel or other. So what it depends on for you -using Windows- is just the Intel driver. Also bootcamp does not matter at all. This is just a marketing name for some software tool that helps you setup Windows on a Mac. The Mac has a EFI BIOS, as well as built-in BIOS compatibly, that can simply boot Windows, Linux, or any other compatibility system, without any GUI tool / driver collection Apple may call Bootcamp. Nothing specially magic with that.
April 11th, 2014 at 9:43
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I know other solutions like Parallels. I am also aware that this is a Windows driver issue. As long as Iris is capable, theoritically Intel can develop a new driver like Nvidia and ATI which would show them as just one display. Hopefully and eventually it will come. I assume whether such driver would also arrive to Mavericks depends on whether Apple would like it and on Apple/Intel collaboration: Apple may want only its high-end 15′’ Haswell rMBP with Nvidia 750M to have 4k 60Hz on Mavericks to give an extra edge to its highest spec’d computer. We will see how it goes in the future. The capability is there, but it is upto Intel to make it flawless for Windows and Intel/Apple to make it possible on Mavericks.
BTW, if I resize a window/web page/application/whatever and fill the entire screen, there will always be two taskbars, right?
April 11th, 2014 at 15:47
Well, this Intel driver thing is a bit hilarious. I should not be rocket science to unify two displays and only pass one in the case of MST to the OS, … ?!?!? But then Intel is not particularly know to deliver good drivers anyways, …
Well, Parallels and VMware are completely different things than just running Windows on the real hardware. With Parallels and VMware you still run another OS, like Mac OS X, and Windows only virtually on top of that. Windows does not access the hardware directly, and instead only sees generic, virtually emulated devices. While this is great for software development and testing, as well as occasional office use and such, that certainly is not what you want to high 4K performance, …
I would assume there should be config knobs to configure this task bar stuff on Windows 8, …, somewhere, at least in the Registry ;-) …
April 11th, 2014 at 20:12
Renes explanation is correct. Intel hasn’t hidden this in their drivers yet.
I would have to say it depends on how much you really, really want retina text. im a programmer so it is easier on my eyes BUT i think I prefer a 27″ model with non-retina because the extra screen real estate is precious.
i will say that i think windows 8.1 w/ monitor showing as two screens is NOT a deal breaker, because there are tools that can help you maximize across two desktops.
I imagine Intel will fix it eventually as well.
That all being said, I still think the 15″ Haswell is the way to go. The drivers on both sides (mac and windows) are solid and it just works,
I will do more mac testing for you with latest beta when i get back sunday.
April 11th, 2014 at 23:19
Guys,
The Asus representative in the below video demonstrates, step by step, how to enable 4k @ 60Hz on an Intel integrated Haswell GPU and get rid of the glitches likes 2 taskbars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MA6D-Z8LQQ
Have you tried what he does?
He does not state which specific Intel GPU he tried on and therefore I don’t know if his method is applicable to all Intel Haswell GPUs including yours, HD 4400 (Rene) and HD 5100 Iris (Tommy).
April 12th, 2014 at 0:18
It appears Intel has recently released new drivers for Intel Haswell GPUs on 23 March 2014:
http://www.guru3d.com/files_details/intel_iris_and_hd_graphics_driver_v15_33_18_download.html
which is available here for download:
http://www.official-drivers.com/installer/?seed=intel&v=2&gclid=CPTiw6W42b0CFQkEwwodCXYAqw
If the instructions in the above video does not work, perhaps they may upon installing this update. Please let us known.
Tommy:
I don’t think the release date of this driver is not coincidential considering Apple’s 10.9.3 beta builds which focus almost exclusively on graphics. Apple might have adopted Intel’s new driver in its latest build or may adopt in upcoming build(s) or final 10.9.3. If you can find time, please kindly download and install this driver on Windows and latest 13D38 Build of 10.9.3 beta and let us know if you can get 4k 60Hz on Mavericks and whether the 4k 60Hz capability has become flawless on Windows.
April 12th, 2014 at 9:57
Not me, because I do not use the 4K display on the Surface - I only plugged it into the Surface to answer your questions. Normally I have the 4k display on the rMBP 15″ Mac for software development.
April 12th, 2014 at 11:12
Rene,
Could you please approve my post regarding Intel’s new driver for Haswell GPUs? as it awaits your moderation?
April 12th, 2014 at 11:24
Due to the insecure nature of Windows and third party drivers we have very strict policies for that machines - the Surface 2 is our Windows software Q/A platform I can not install other drivers / software to it. However, I would assume they work as promised in that video ;-)
Btw. given the incompleteness of UI scaling, especially for third party and older software I do not find this 4k 24″ display too useful on Windows 8. It mostly just hurts my eyes. On the Mac I run it in HiDPI mode, basically making it a Retina display for super-sharp text and graphics for my all-day-long software development work. Additionally the 100% sRGB, 99% Adobe RGB color gamut coverage makes it just perfect for our image processing R&D.
April 12th, 2014 at 11:30
Thank you. At least Tommy might be able to and interested in installing the new Intel driver, which might also be embedded in the latest build of 10.9.3 beta.
April 13th, 2014 at 17:40
I’ll try today when I get home
April 14th, 2014 at 3:57
No go on latest drivers for Iris 5100 off Intel’s site. Driver was 15.33.18.
Still sees 2 monitors in portrait. I don’t think its a deal breaker.
Rene: I’m a developer too and the key to making it look great is using Windows 8.1’s HiDPI and mixed monitor support. You set the resolution to the max (which windows does automatically) and you adjust the font size to your liking. It works great for me.
A few apps are not scaling friendly but most are for me.
April 14th, 2014 at 5:25
few updates for you guys:
i was able to get collage mode working on the bootcamp side so you can get a single screen. however, you cannot use your mac as another screen. they don’t let you put a monitor outside the collage so you can’t say: treat built in display separate from the external monitor in this mode.
so me, thats a no-go. i use 2 screens.
took the latest mac drivers: 13D38
no 60hz mode, and if anything the 30hz mode feels a little laggier although that is a bit subjective.
Annoyed at intel at this point… I have a working PC w/Radeons outputting 60hz just fine, and an Intel 750m as well.
But not Iris although we know 60hz is possible when the driver works around the MST mode without a hack.
April 14th, 2014 at 11:58
I just want to make sure of the following:
On Macbook Pro Retina 13″ Late 2013 (Intel Iris) with the most recent Intel Driver 15.33.18 and 10.9.3 beta build 13D38 are installed and when you connect your rMBP to the Dell 4k 60Hz monitor via DP 1.2;
a) on Mavericks: you get 4k @ 30Hz only; and
b) on Bootcamp;
i) without collage mode: you get 4k @ 60Hz but Windows recognizes as if there are 2 monitors in portrait mode, and therefore there are some minor issues like apps maximazing only on left screen, 2 taskbars, etc, but you can still use your Mac’s screen at the same time;
- with collage mode: you get flawless 4k @ 60Hz where Windows recognizes the monitor as one external screen, but you cannot use Mac’s screen at all.
Is the foregoing accurate?
April 14th, 2014 at 13:33
Everyone of your statements is absolutely correct.
I will check back here or I would be happy to answer any offline questions via email.
April 14th, 2014 at 17:41
Thank you, Tommy, a lot for your confirmation. I guess you did not know about the collage mode until my post/watching that youtube video?
Would you mind sharing your email?
April 15th, 2014 at 0:52
mg248: correct. It is not exactly obvious in their menu so I appreciate the Youtube link.
email is tfannon AT gmail.com
April 19th, 2014 at 3:24
Are you displaying an RGB signal in the UP2414q with Mavericks? Did you have to download the ruby script to “force RGB” mode? Macs have been known to display blurry text through 3rd party external monitors..
April 19th, 2014 at 14:38
It is the first time I ever hear about something like this and I use Macs with non-Apple displays for quite a while, so: No, I never had to mess with “RGB” modes on this Dell UP2414Q, nor any other display ever. The Dell has a “Input Color Format” in the OSD menu, which also allows for: YPbPr instead of RGB- maybe someone had that changed and then OSX output YUV or whatever, … as requested in the monitor, … ?!?
Anyway, so far I never had problems with display, and I only have one Apple display: the previous generation Cinema Display, the mate Aluminium one. The currently glossy mirror displays are not for me. With my overly long workdays coding I get headache and eye strain quickly, … Instead I have a NEC PA241W next to the new Dell - also a beautiful, color accurate IPS display, … And various other, older ViewSonic, Samsung, etc. displays in our offices. No RGB, color, etc. problems on Macs with any of those, whatsoever, …
April 20th, 2014 at 2:23
Please check these websites for more information:
http://www.ireckon.net/2013/03/force-rgb-mode-in-mac-os-x-to-fix-the-picture-quality-of-an-external-monitor
http://embdev.net/topic/284710
April 20th, 2014 at 12:26
I already found the first linked site when you asked with a web search yesterday - but again: the Dell’s displayed image looks perfect here, nothing to complain at all, crisp, sharp, accurate colours, … Maybe a difference is that I drive it thru display port, not HDMI, … ? or something like that, …
April 21st, 2014 at 7:19
Thanks for the info guys! I’ve been trying to find out if the latest 13″ rMBP could handle 4K @ 60hz for a long time. If I understand correctly
support could also be included for Mac OS if Intel provides a driver? Is the inability to also use the built in screen at the same time a hardware limitation? Thanks again!
April 21st, 2014 at 12:23
As the current Intel graphics silicon can handle 4k @60Hz it is theoretically possible that Apple adds support for this in the Mac OS X driver. However, given the track record of withholding features, or even charging for them, I have my doubts that Apple will do so. They certainly want to reserve this for the top-of-the-line machines, or sell a next gen MacBook, …
The inability to use the internal screen is not a hardware limitation. It simply is a software driver limitation of the hack that Intel calls “Collage” mode. By default, without this collage mode all screens, internal and external 4K, do work under Windows. Only if the so called collage mode is enabled to unify the two 4k panels the external screen goes off as it is not part of the Collage group. Intel engineering at work™, …
April 22nd, 2014 at 7:04
Thanks for your response Rene!
So it definitely just comes down to Intel creating a proper driver to support the built in monitor and an external 4k simultaneously? Do you think we will see this happen on Windows?
If Apple does decide to add this support would they go to Intel to create the driver or do it themselves? Is it possible that Intel could create the driver and it could be downloaded independent of an OS update?
April 22nd, 2014 at 19:31
Collage mode is not responsbile because Tommy has just confirmed that when Collage mode is enable late 2013 15′’ rMBP with Nvidia 750M can output 4k 60Hz flawlessly on Windows via Bootcamp. By flawless I mean without any screen glitches and simultaneous output from both the rMBP’s screen and external screen. Hence the problem might be another software aspect or hardware.
I urge you to read jdiamond’s post in the below link (first post on page 17):
https://discussions.apple.com/message/25421760#25421760
He points out how hard to make MST drivers and how long it took for GPU companies to do them. Therefore I also have some hope that all late rMBPs may do 4k 60Hz on Mavericks some day. I especially hope by the end of 10.9.3 final release they will do that. After that, quite frankly, my hopes will be dwindled but they will always remain because if Iris and Iris Pro can output 4k 60Hz on Windows, theoritically they may on Mavericks.
April 22nd, 2014 at 19:45
@Pablo: I would expect future Intel drivers on Windows to unify MST displays without this manual Collage grouping hack, and I do not think that Apple needs to go to Intel to have updated drivers. As far as I have seen Apple mostly developers their Intel graphic drivers themselves.
@mg428: First of all I do not find it hard to properly support MST displays. If detected by EDID, unite the rectangles and return one. Not rocket science.
Second normal MST support is different from what Intel calls “Collage”. Intel’s Collage allows to combine any set of display, it has nothing to do with MST 4k displays per se and thus that the internal display is off when this “Collage” mode is used is an implementation detail / limitation of Intel’s own graphic driver stack, …
April 23rd, 2014 at 5:24
Thanks again Rene! I really appreciate your input on this matter.
What causes 2 seperate desktops to appear on the 4K screen in the first place?
April 23rd, 2014 at 7:08
Even though I know MST and Collage are different things, I mistakenly deduced that the inability to use the internal screen might be a hardware limitation because late 2013 high-end 15′’ rMBP can use the internal screen whereas 13′’ cannot in Collage mode. My bad. Because the high-end model does not have the Intel software!
Quite frankly I am not familiar with the technical aspects of creating a MST driver, let alone any driver. However, be it easy or not, GPU companies did not act promptly on this. Perhaps they waited until 4k monitors were released and became relatively mainstream.
In the end 4k 60Hz output on Mavericks on the Haswell rMBPs with Iris and Iris Pro depends on the willingness of Apple and and their collaboration with Intel. I really hope it will arrive with the final release of 10.9.3.
April 23rd, 2014 at 9:45
@Pablo: The bandwidth (of pixels per second) of DisplayPort 1 is not high enough for 4k pixels @60 Hz. Such a limitation existed already years ago with the first DVI which runs at 165 MHz and thus can drive a resolution of about 2.75 megapixels @60 Hz. Which is about 1920×1200 @60 Hz. For higher resolution dual-link DVI was introduced many years ago, which doubles the TMDS pairs, and thus the video bandwidth - this allowed for higher resolutions up to 2560×1600 @60Hz. DisplayPort 1.2 introduced Multi-Stream Transport, allowing to daisy chain multiple displays on one port, or in the case of 4k display, the left half and the right half of the panel.
@mg428: Well, for some exceptional thing: why implement it before there is market demand, let alone displays to test with, … Given that 10.9.3 is deep in the release cycle, I would assume Apple does not make such big changes anymore before releasing the 10.9.3 final. I assume you can hope for 10.9.4 …
April 25th, 2014 at 4:45
Thanks once again Rene!
I understand that most 4K panels work at 60hz by using MST (one stream for the left side of the panel and the other for the right) but have never heard of the monitor displaying two different desktops which would indicate that it’s an odd issue with the Intel driver correct?
I don’t understand the difference between Intel Collage mode vs multiple monitors support already in Mac and Windows. Can’t you already select the the display layout using independent resolutions? I suppose some OS elements appear that don’t make it seem exactly like one large combined display?
Does the DisplayPort 1.2 spec allow daisy changing off a SST 60hz 4K monitor using MST if the GPU can handle it? It’s awesome that they are starting to pop up.
May 5th, 2014 at 1:11
According to the below link which includes the release notes of the beta 10.9.3 13D57 build, 10.9.3 provides “improved 4K display support on …. MacBook Pro with 15-inch Retina display (Late 2013)”.
http://9to5mac.com/2014/05/01/os-x-mavericks-10-9-3-release-nears-with-bolstered -4k-display-support/
As you would remember, the high-end 15′’ late 2013 rMBP with Nvidia 750M can do 4k @ 60Hz on Mavericks by virtue of the 10.9.3. This release note gives some hope to the owners of low-end late 2013 15′’ rMBP with Iris Pro because the release note seems to be written down in a way that it encompasses all late 2013 15′’ rMBPs, i.e. both low-end and high-end models with integrated Iris Pro and discrete Nvidia 750M GPU. In short, low-end late 2013 15′’ rMBP with Iris Pro may do 4k @ 60Hz once the 10.9.3 final version is released.
At this point, based on the release note, it seems that late 2013 13′’ rMBP with Iris has not been provided with such support. In other words, no 4k @ 60Hz on Mavericks with late 2013 13′’ rMBP for the time being. Hopefully some day, perhaps with the 10.9.4, it will do it. Because it has been proved that it can do it on Windows. Therefore it can do it on Mavericks as well with the necessary driver.
May 10th, 2014 at 14:49
some further thoughts…..
Even taking all the latest drops from Apple, maverics still does not support 60hz on Iris Pro.
On the bootcamp side, there are still two options: 1) if you run with only the Dell ( laptop closed ), it works great. If you want to use any secondary display ( either the laptop or another ), you cannot use collage, but you can setup the Dell as two displays. Hacky, but workable.
However, every time you take the laptop somewhere and bring it back you have to reconfigure the displays. quite annoying. i find the best mode is just to leave the laptop closed in this case.
With the 750m, things are nicer. Works in Maverics and Bootcamp with no glitches. I find one thing though.. sometimes when laptop goes to sleep and comes back on, the display needs to be re-enabled. To work around this, I just tell the laptop never to sleep when plugged in.
As a last point: I bought the Samsung 28 4k. That thing is very low quality. I couldn’t get it working on the mac side at all. On the bootcamp side with the 750m, it works but the quality is nowhere close to the Dell.
I’d give this one a pass.
Hope this helps everyone else contemplating 4k land.
May 11th, 2014 at 14:27
Yeah, display management under Windows, especially with a MST display and the Intel driver is a real PITA, …
The Samsung 28″ 4k (U28D590D I guess?) is only a TN panel, with the usual colour accuracy and viewing angle limitations. In contrast the Dell UP2414Q is a AH-IPS with wide viewing angles, 99-whatever% Adobe RGB color gamut and such, …
May 12th, 2014 at 12:41
Tommy,
Even though you referred to “Iris Pro” in your last post, I guess you meant Iris, right?
I’d love to hear your comments as to whether there would be any change once the final 10.9.3. is released.
May 14th, 2014 at 17:37
yes, you are correct. The 13″ has the Iris 5100.
I will comment when it ships, but I’m not holding out too much hope for the 13 and a working 60hz solution at ship time. It seems like it would already be at least partially working, and the fact that Intel has not fixed it on the Windows side without the collage hack is disappointing. We’ll see.
May 14th, 2014 at 17:39
Rene,
You are correct about the specs of the Samsung panel. What fascinates me are all the great reviews the things is getting, when honestly, a good non-4k 27″ panel looks better.
It really is a low-quality ‘4k’ solution.
May 14th, 2014 at 17:51
The Samsung appears to be “quite good” for a TN panel according to this German review site - but good TN panel is just not a high end IPS panel ;-) and I want the high DPI for HiDPI anyway, …
On the Windows site it works fully. What matters is what the hardware is putting out, and that is 4k MST @60 Hz. The only thing that is annoying is what the Windows driver and software stack upon it makes out of it, … You can read “Vendor C” in this blog for some more comment’s on driver quality, …
May 16th, 2014 at 6:11
just ordered another one. wonder if the rMBP can drive 2 with the lid closed.
May 16th, 2014 at 8:28
Tommy,
Now that the 10.9.3 final version has been released, I was wondering whether you confirm my previous post in its entirety which you may find below:
“On Macbook Pro Retina 13″ Late 2013 (Intel Iris) with the most recent Intel Driver 15.33.18 and final 10.9.3 are installed and when you connect your rMBP to the Dell 4k 60Hz monitor via DP 1.2;
a) on Mavericks: you get 4k @ 30Hz only; and
b) on Bootcamp;
i) without collage mode: you get 4k @ 60Hz but Windows recognizes as if there are 2 monitors in portrait mode, and therefore there are some minor issues like apps maximazing only on left screen, 2 taskbars, etc, but you can still use your Mac’s screen at the same time;
ii) with collage mode: you get flawless 4k @ 60Hz where Windows recognizes the monitor as one external screen, but you cannot use Mac’s screen at all.”
May 16th, 2014 at 15:06
@Tommy: ;-) Please keep that posted here!
@mg428:Mac OS X updates do not influence Windows bootcamp behaviour in any way. Bootcamp is just the marketing name of Apple to boot/start Windows on a Mac. Windows directly runs on the x86 CPU as it would on any other Intel, AMD. Via. Transmeta, SiS. DMP, etc. PC laptop without any virtualzation or so, … which is why 60Hz MST works there, … with the regular, pristine, vanilla Intel / Microsoft driver stack. Nothing from Apple there at all (beside a touchpad driver), …
May 16th, 2014 at 18:58
I will do some testing as soon as the monitor arrives. I have
the rMBP 15″ late 2013 and rMBP 13″ late 2013 updated on mac (10.9.3) and bootcamp (intel 15.33.18) sides.
just waiting for ups man. the other monitor is at my office sadly or i could test both today.
May 16th, 2014 at 21:45
I can confirm that 4k/60hz works just fine on a 15″ MBP with Iris Pro (no nvidia). It does not work with a 13″ MBP. I’m guessing Apple is only officially supporting the 15″ at this point in time because it has the Iris Pro w/ the greater memory bandwidth.
The 13″ can sort of do 4k/60hz in Windows with the above tweaks, but that’s not in Intel’s official specs or reference guides (U series Haswell) while the 15″ is (H series Haswell, which has always been listed as capable of 4k/60hz). It will be interesting to see if Apple ever exposes that option given that it is sort of a hack to make it work at all on Windows right now. I’d hope so, it’d be great if they would!
May 16th, 2014 at 23:18
You mean 60Hz works with the non-Retina 15″? I think so far Apple only mentions Mac Pro and 15″ Retina MacBook Pro on the 4k support page: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6008
May 16th, 2014 at 23:59
No. The Iris Pro 15″ MBP that doesn’t have an Nvidia GPU works with 10.9.3. That is of course a model of the late 2013 retina MBPs. There was an earlier question as to whether the late 2013 retina MBP 15″ works (that only has Iris Pro)- and it does.
May 17th, 2014 at 0:33
Interesting - didn’t realize there are 15″ retina without nvidia graphics …
May 17th, 2014 at 13:13
Thank you, Travis. This makes sense. Because of the official final release note says “Improves 4K display support on MacBook Pro with 15-inch Retina Display (Late 2013)”. This includes both the high-end 15-inch with Nvidia 750M and low-end 15′’ with Iris Pro 5200. It seems Apple opted out 13′’ owners with Iris 5100.
May 17th, 2014 at 16:54
with latest 10.9.3, things are still the same with 13″ w/Iris. 30hz only.
no change on bootcamp either. collage mode with case closed only.
30hz is livable but obviously not ideal.
the other thing i have noticed in general is the monitor is a little flaky when switching input sources. i am using both the display port ( to rMBP) and mini ( to my pc w/Radeon). When i switch back and forth using the OCD, it seems to sometimes not be able to pick the signal back up. Only a reboot of the computer and a power cycle of the dell will correct it.
little annoyances… sigh… but still a gorgeous display. code against it for a week and you will never go back.
May 18th, 2014 at 2:43
Another mavericks annoyance: can’t use both display ports
http://www.displaylink.com/support/ticket.php?id=354
Sadly, this appears to be the case so (2) 4Ks are out of the question, although the HDMI port does work, so you could power a second one @ 30hz. I’ll be giving that a try next week.
By the the way, both displayports work fine in Bootcamp.
May 19th, 2014 at 10:05
@Tommy: Just want to know whether the os x 10.9.3 on late 2013 13′ macbook pro can drive the 4k monitor with HiDPI or not.
You mentioned that 13′ rmbp can only works at 30hz@4k but how about the HiDPI mode?
May 19th, 2014 at 12:59
@creese
yes, it’s HiDPI. It looks the same as the machines that are capable of 60hz, but the refresh is just slower.
May 20th, 2014 at 0:48
@Tommy:
I’ve read reports prior to 10.9.3 that two 4K monitors could be used @30Hz using both displayport:
http://www.imore.com/using-multiple-4k-displays-your-macbook-pro
Isn’t displaylink just a company that develops USB video adapter display technology?
May 20th, 2014 at 1:02
displaylink is a company that makes products, including a USB video adapter, but they commented on questions asked about why both display ports cannot be used simultaneously. It seems to be a mavericks problem. they have reported the bug to apple and are encouraging other developers too as well.
I am experiencing it too. My second monitor is not even 4k. It blanks out when plugged to second port. If I unplug the first port, it re-enabled.
And as noted before, both display ports work fine in Bootcamp. I am not sure how that author is using two simultaneously. Perhaps he is not using mavericks?
May 21st, 2014 at 14:08
Maybe two 4k displays worked in earlier versions, before the 4k @60Hz support in 10.9.3?
May 21st, 2014 at 16:27
I just left this comment on the Mac 4K article on Anandtech, but figured that I might get an answer here.
I just called Apple support and they informed me flat out that the MacPro does not tile 4K and drives it as a single 3840-by-2160 at 60Hz. This seems to me to be completely contradictory to everything else I’ve read which states that there is no single tiling option available now. Who’s right?
May 21st, 2014 at 16:41
Well, there are usually not Albert Einsteins sitting at company support lines - even when they are called genius’, …
This “tiling” depends on the display. If a display requires MST it can only be driven with MST, so the Mac Pro has to send it using multiple streams (MST) - usually for the left and right half.
When I took a look at the Mac Pro setup in an Apple store with the Sharp 32″ PN-K321 - 4K Ultra HD LED Monitor I also saw “MST” in the Sharp’s OSD menu. So I would assume even the Sharp display Apple sells requires MST to drive 4k pixels at 60 Hz, …
May 21st, 2014 at 17:04
Thanks for the fast reply. Is there any way to drive any 32″ class computer monitor in 4K single tiled either with Mac or PC?
May 21st, 2014 at 17:23
It has nothing to do with the physical size (24″, 32″, …) either. What matters is how to get the bandwidth of pixel data clocked on the wires and onto the display - it is the same for a 24″ or 32″ 4k display. It is always 4k pixels multiplied by color depth and refresh rate (+ blanking). I am not sure if there currently exists any 4k display not using MST. As I do not write display drivers every day I am not 100% sure why - I guess it has todo with the maximum clock per lane and/or the display’s internal data paths. Here are the speeds from the DisplayPort 1.2 VESA spec:
Main Link Configuration | Raw Bitrate | Application Bandwidth Throughput
1 lane | 1.62, 2.7, 5.4* Gbps | 1.296, 2.16, 4.32* Gbps
2 lanes | 3.24, 5.4, 10.8* Gbps | 2.592, 4.32, 8.64* Gbps
4 lanes | 6.48, 10.8, 21.6* Gbps | 5.184, 8.64, 17.28* Gbps
*New speed option Enabled by DisplayPort 1.2 Specification
Update: I think it has to do with the 5.4Ghz (HBR2) support for the DisplayPort link.
May 21st, 2014 at 17:26
You would think that Thunderbolt 2 would be able to handle that amount of throughput? Do you think that a TB2 system would be able drive that resolution in single tile?
May 21st, 2014 at 17:35
Thunderbolt is “only” multiplexing additional data with the DisplayPort data. So the Thunderbolt part is only used for PCIE devices such a storage, GPU and whatnot you attach to the port. As far as I have seen for getting pixel data to a display the regular DisplayPort is usually used. So if it is a Thunderbolt 1 or 2 port does not matter at all for the point of driving a display - unless it is a “rare” native Thunderbolt display.
However, if you saturate a Thunderbolt port with a 4k @60Hz data stream there is not much bandwidth left for PCIE. Using PCIE devices on the same port would be very slow. In that case another Thunderbolt port should be used for the PICE devices.
May 30th, 2014 at 23:22
Are any of you using calibration hardware and software for the UP2414Q and Retina displays? I1 Display Pro? Settings?
June 2nd, 2014 at 9:10
So, it should also be possible to use both TB ports on Retina MBP Mid 2012 to get a single 4K@60Hz. Has anyone tried it?
June 3rd, 2014 at 11:48
Nope, not me.
You mean the left panel side with one port, the right panel side with another port? I’m not even sure any display on the market does support this, do they?
June 12th, 2014 at 8:24
There are various 4K 60Hz SST displays on the market as I mentioned previously. A google search will yield results.
June 12th, 2014 at 9:16
According to http://support.apple.com/kb/ht6008 no Macs support 4K 60hz with SST at this time.
There is also a forum thread where users report there are unable to use the Samsung U28D590D 4K SST display at 60Hz even with Mac OS 10.9.3 but no trouble with Bootcamp Windows. It seems the no Mac has HDMI 2.0 at this time so only 30Hz 4K over HDMI.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6080897?start=0&tstart=0
June 12th, 2014 at 10:40
Hi Pablo,
I did an internet search on SST the other day and did not find much. To your older question of daisy chaining: There is not much bandwidth left on the DisplayPort with one 4k @60Hz display present, so for DP1.2 compatible 4K displays you could probably only add a much smaller display. Or run two 4k displays at 30 Hz each. You can see the bandwidth use in the DisplayPort spec link I posted earlier above.
And yes, AFAIK the current Mac’s are HDMI 1.x only, no HDMI 2.0 at Apple yet.
June 20th, 2014 at 18:39
Apple Employees have no idea
I went to the Apple Store in Dresden, Germany today. I asked them if the 15″ base model (Iris Pro) was able to run 4k/60 Hz. All they could do was to open the spec page of the rMBP and tell me “no, all 15″ rMBPs support 4k at 30 Hz”. So annoying they have no idea what they’re talking.
I’ve been reading this thread for some days. Really good, thank you guys! I’m probably buying the base line 15″ rMBP - got the 2012 at the moment. Sadly, Apple just won’t support 4k/60 Hz for the 13″ rMBP.
Daniel
June 23rd, 2014 at 16:53
Hi Rene,
You are correct about not enough bandwidth to daisy 4K @ 60hz:
http://www.displayport.org/cables/driving-multiple-displays-from-a-single-displayport-output/
It would be interesting to know if it is possible at 30hz.
July 4th, 2014 at 18:37
Got this Dell monitor running off of a Mac Mini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5 with 4 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 and with color calibration in the preferences the thing works beautifully in DVI ,mode connected to this monitor, so was worth the sale price I got it for. Does a beautiful job for the price. Did not need any driver for it, plugged it in and it worked. I’m running OS X 10.9 Mavericks.
DJ Emery
July 14th, 2014 at 20:26
Hi Rene,
I plan to buy a monitor Dell UP2414Q. I was wondering whether I will go 3840×2160 @ 60Hz on my Mac Pro 5,1 (Mid-2010) with a graphics card HD7950 Mac Edition under Mavericks? Card has 2x mDP and 1x HDMI.
Thank you for your reply.
Michal
PS: sorry for my english, i’m begginer
July 16th, 2014 at 12:53
I’m not sure if the Mac OSX driver for the HD7950 “Mac Edition” support 4k, … Even if the hardware supports this, it does not mean Apple implemented it (already) in the Mac OSX driver, … See the 4k on Intel graphics which works with the Intel drivers on Windows, but not Mac OSX, …
Anyone with exactly that hardware?
August 12th, 2014 at 11:42
Do you know if the Dell UltraSharp 24″ 4K UP2414Q will run at 60Hz (4k) when daisy chained to mac thunderbolt display? I have latest 2014 Macbook Pro Retina 13″ and I want to use the 24″ display in portrait mode (source code) so I don’t mind the smaller size since it is a supplementary screen. Thanks.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:54
Hey Jacob,
as the quality and glossiness of the Apple Thunderbolt display never attracted me I have none to test. As the Apple display is quite old, it is certainly was not designed with DP 1.2 for 4k in mind, and thus most likely will not support such high bitrates, … (for 60Hz, it may run at 30Hz), …
August 12th, 2014 at 13:57
Hi René, thanks for your quick reply. Subsequent to my post I read that the current model Macbook Pro Retina 13″ will only run 30Hz (max), and only the 15″ is capable of 60Hz. I don’t want a large laptop so that’s the deal breaker, unfortunately. Great post!
August 12th, 2014 at 14:05
Well, for code (and video) 30Hz is actually quite ok. The first weeks I worked, coding, every day with 30Hz on this display until the Mac OS X update came out.
The only annoying thing for me with 30Hz is the mouse cursor. I feels really sloppy. I had the feeling it was a bit better running Linux natively. My conclusion is that the mouse cursor on Mac OS X is probably affected by some system-wide double- or even triple-buffering.
If you can live with a sloppy mouse 30Hz is ok, and I really prefer HiDPI for sharp text for coding all day long.
September 1st, 2014 at 17:23
I have a late 2013 rMBP, is there any possibility it will be able to run a 4K display @ 60Hz (with OS X)?
September 8th, 2014 at 12:41
Which screen size is this? If I did not loose overview so far 60Hz 4K only works on the 15″ models, …
September 18th, 2014 at 23:37
A 15″ late 2013 rMBP will support 4K@60Hz just fine. The 13″ late 2013 rMBP does not support 4K@60Hz. Out of the box it supports 4K@30Hz over HDMI. With some hacking you can enable 4K@52Hz (or at most 53Hz if you further reduce blanking) over DisplayPort. Or you can get “almost 4K” (3610×2030) at 60Hz. Neither of these options are perfect. 52Hz will give you a minor juddering (but still its much better than the stock 30Hz), “almost 4k” will rob you of some clarity and sharpness.
September 18th, 2014 at 23:45
Hi LegoMan - do you have links for the reduced blanking case @52Hz? I tried exactly that (reducing blanking) with my original, 2013 15″ Retina MacBook over DisplayPort, but it just would not work. The question is if that was due to the DisplayPort on that older machine, or if the Dell display would not sync on such signals, …
September 20th, 2014 at 11:48
I use the following SwitchResX settings with my U28D590D to run 4K@53Hz on rMBP 13″:
Active - 3840, 2160
Front porch 10 ,1
Sync width 28, 2
Back porch 28, 6
Scan rate 115.207kHz, 53.115Hz
Here is the Modeline paramteres to copy into SwitchResX:
—
PowerStrip timing parameters:
3 840×2 160=3 840,10,28,28,2 160,1,2,6,450 000,5
Generic timing details for 3 840×2 160:
HFP=10 HSW=28 HBP=28 kHz=115 VFP=1 VSW=2 VBP=6 Hz=53
VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=450,00 H.Active=3 840 H.Blank=66 H.Offset=-6 HSW=28 V.Active=2 160 V.Blank=9 V.Offset=1 VSW=2
# XFree86 modeline parameters:
Modeline “3 840×2 160″ 450,000 3 840 3 850 3 878 3 906 2 160 2 161 2 163 2 169 +hsync -vsync
November 5th, 2014 at 15:18
I’m late to the party, but very interesting read above!
So, it seems confirmed that the 13″ rMBP is able to run 4K@60Hz, just not in MacOS?
I just bought an ASUS PQ321QE (a 4K@60Hz monitor that uses MST) and I’m looking for a laptop that can support it. I am however a heavy user of Linux and would install Linux on any machine I buy. So can anyone confirm that even though Apple state on their webpage that the 13″ rMBP (now there’s the mid 2014 version) doesn’t support 4K@60Hz, I could still buy it and use it with Linux?
November 5th, 2014 at 22:47
As far as I remember from this discussion the 13″ rMBP should be able to output 4k@60Hz, but the Mac OS X driver does not support this. E.g. the Surface 2 I have –with an even lower-power-consumption Intel CPU/GPU– does 4k under Windows.
I personally do not like binary-blobs under Linux (for me the NVidia and AMD drivers are a no-go there). There Intel driver only recently gained 4k support and may still require to compile a package or two from source. (Not a problem for me though.)
November 18th, 2014 at 4:47
Hi,
@Legoman thanks a lot for your post. I try to drive Dell UP2414Q with rMBP 13 retina Mid 2014 but I can’t get any signal after enabling custom resolution.
Should I install/activate anything else before ( so that maybe thunderbolt port runs at 450Hz, dunno ? ) or install macpixelclockcatcher?
I would be glad if shared with details.
Thanks a lot in advance
December 23rd, 2014 at 14:42
Hi Guys:
Sorry to trouble this forum/post, but I need to know a couple of things, and this seems to be the best thread for it…
I really really really want the Dell UP2414Q. I also want it to run at full resolution at 60HZ.
Is this possible, and if yes, how so, with Mid-2012 rMBP, maxed out.
Also, what’s the deal with scaling? Is it like the scaling on my native Mac screen?
Thanks in advance, and Merry Christmas to all.
Will.
January 6th, 2015 at 17:34
Hello there,
just bought DELL UP3214Q and cannot get it work with MBP with GT750m. Other from setting displayport to 1.2 and connecting the display via Mini displayport to displayport cable that was included, is there anything else I need to do to get it working?
The monitor just goes to sleep. Via HDMI, it sometimes works, sometimes not…but only @30hz.
Thanks!